Future of D2 - ideas for D3

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Future of D2 - ideas for D3

Postby Tolakram » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:59 pm

Let's start this again.

I don't like the idea of wiping the server, so no wipe, but I want to fit in some pretty major gameplay changes. Here is my ideal list of things I really want to have happen. Keep in mind my ideal is what I want vs quick to implement. If I come up with an idea that is cool but will take a lot of my time then the hard reality is it probably won't get done.

1. Direct login to D2 without having to talk to an NPC to move the character.

2. Raise level cap to 100 and re-work XP ladder to create a more even feel to leveling. The standard spells and skills will be given to players every other level (Skill level = level / 2) to make it easy for me without needing to edit all spell lists. This also adds a neat requirement for players to get to 100 in normal in order to gain all their skills.

3. Look at changing the max level requirement to change modes. Possibly make it so the final quest is required to advance, with a minimum level needed to get the quest.

4. Add a new area for Hell players

5. Removal or nerfing of overpowered henchman.

6. Update potion / damage mechanic so potions are still spammable, but not as required as they are now.

7. Removal or nerfing of overpowered gear to allow for re-balancing of end game mobs. Also think hard about modifying how combiners can be used or getting rid of them. I like socket drills and wrenches, but combiners are used to max stats and remove randomness. In addition, weapon speeds, cap issues, and other problems with gear have to be solved. An item gained at level 60 should not be useless at level 70. I need to somehow change the item power curve. In Diablo II a new drop might do a little more damage, but that damage might be mitigated by better bonuses on the lower level item.

8. Modify the mechanic of loot generation so more loot is created automatically and less or no loot has to be created by hand. I dislike custom loot for the end game mobs. In Diablo II the end game boss had a higher chance to drop rares, 'uniques', and sets, but rarely anything specifically unique to the boss. This is a tricky one to get right. First off, Diablo II had a crap ton of standard and magical drops, but the client was built to handle it. In DAoC the drop mechanic does not work well ... TOO MANY DAMN DROPS. I think I have to bite the bullet and make any drop fairly rare, and rare drops really rare at that. In this way fighting a boss to get an almost guaranteed rare drop is worth something!

9. REMOVE CRAFTING. This is a royal pain in the rear for me. "Hey, I can't salvage XYZ or such and such is not implemented." Unfortunately I really don't care. Adding crafting recipes is not fun, extremely time consuming, and not enjoyable in the least. Diablo II did not have crafting, why do I support it? I can use those models for drops.

10. THINK HARD ABOUT REMOVING CONSIGNMENT MERCHANTS, MAYBE HOUSING. The CM can break a game dependent on drops, I should have seen this ahead of time. The more items on the CM the higher the incentive to powerlevel for money and buy what you need. Housing allows for trophies, but trophies are fixed drops I have to add by hand. I can probably be talked out of this change.

11. Look at the money drop rate and see if it needs adjusted, keeping in mind less loot will be dropping so less selling, but crafting will be removed so less money needed. Will also have to look at and adjust housing prices as well.


Big Picture

Make the game something people can casually play, have fun with, and experience something new each play session. I think that was the catch to Diablo II that allows me to still have fun playing that old game. You were never done. Rare loot dropped just enough to be fun, but not enough to ever be boring. I think that's the issue with D2, you can be done. I inflated the importance of unique drops which eliminated the randomness of the loot system. IMO anytime a significant number of people complain about not getting a drop it's a sign that the drop should be available to buy, or not in the game at all. Random loot makes for random, fixed loot makes for complaining. :) One other change, along these lines, is to make sure rare models only drop from rare mobs. Use drills and wrenches to move bonuses from an ugly item to a good looking one.

The way I see it, a player starts D2 and the beginning of the game works the way i wanted it too. "OOh, a drop, looky, cool!" As the player continues to level up and gains more knowledge of the game it becomes obvious that there is an end game goal and to be able to do it you will need to make gear that is near perfect. Leet end game drops + combiners filled to the max. The need to get the best gear in the game from Diablo III, etc. No such mechanic existed in Diablo II because it was all mostly random.

Uniques have the same problem. I created a bunch, each took hours of my time until eventually I changed to having uniques be fancy models with all sockets, maybe one fixed bonus. The wrench and drill mechanic, which Diablo II does not have, is a good replacement for uniques IMO. Roll your own based on what you are able to create. Maybe I can come up with something similar to allow players to make set equivalent items that provide an added bonus if the entire 'set' is equipped? Real set items require a crap ton of work for me to create. I'd love to have them, but realistically it's not going to happen.
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Re: Future of D2 - ideas for D3

Postby Dinberg » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:41 am

8. Modify the mechanic of loot generation so more loot is created automatically and less or no loot has to be created by hand. I dislike custom loot for the end game mobs. In Diablo II the end game boss had a higher chance to drop rares, 'uniques', and sets, but rarely anything specifically unique to the boss.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to have a loot generator which can be biased in a certain direction. eg Kill some specific fire like NPC, very high chance to drop flame proccing gear which high heat resist, etc. That way it remains procedural, but loot is vaguely specific to each Boss. You could also add in different descriptors to the item (eg for 'The Butcher', he might drop 'Singed Carvery Bracers, where the adjective carvery associates with this Boss). All of this could be easily extended from Etaew's old ROG script, and database driven (something like MobXLootTrait, where loot 'traits' (ie above) could be associated to mob names similar to how the current named item drop works. When generating RoG, an item is first generated as per usual, then extra traits are added, with a little randomisation, by picking random entries from the database. It still requires a small amount of database work, but with maybe 4 traits per boss it would generate a substantial amount of varied loot for little work.

REMOVE CRAFTING.
Yup, socket wrenches etc handle the job of gear customisation fine anyway.
10. THINK HARD ABOUT REMOVING CONSIGNMENT MERCHANTS, MAYBE HOUSING. The CM can break a game dependent on drops, I should have seen this ahead of time.
It also removes a level of player interaction. Removing the CM would make guild-specific vaults far more valuable, as players need to pool their items and talk with one another. That's better for community long term aswell.
money drop rate
I think the problem is not the drop rate itself, but the fact that its very easy to get hold of alot of it at low levels. Players walk around handing it out like candy, so when I was level 10 I already had a few plat from some charitable soul. I have no idea how long that takes a high level character to earn, but for a low level character its game breaking. This wont change regardless of tweaking drop levels.

Maybe it would be better to have money worth the same amount to everyone? So a level 50 earns (roughly) it as fast as a level 20, but the cost of the gambler and other services doesnt scale with level. Easiest way I can think of doing this is have money drop a certain amount depending only on mob con to the player, not level.


Also maybe get rid of the rabbit, its far too easy to powerlevel yourself with it.

Use drills and wrenches to move bonuses from an ugly item to a good looking one.
Agreed.
Maybe I can come up with something similar to allow players to make set equivalent items that provide an added bonus if the entire 'set' is equipped? Real set items require a crap ton of work for me to create. I'd love to have them, but realistically it's not going to happen.
Set bonuses could be specific to a boss using the above - ie wear all armor from 'The Butcher', gain +50 good looks.
The Marvelous Contraption begins to stir...
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Re: Future of D2 - ideas for D3

Postby Tolakram » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:50 pm

Hi Dinny, thanks for the input. The traits idea is interesting.
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Re: Future of D2 - ideas for D3

Postby galimoth » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:30 pm

2. Raise level cap to 100 and re-work XP ladder to create a more even feel to leveling. The standard spells and skills will be given to players every other level (Skill level = level / 2) to make it easy for me without needing to edit all spell lists. This also adds a neat requirement for players to get to 100 in normal in order to gain all their skills.
I don't have a huge problem with this. However, given that you would have roughly half the abilities that you have now, would existing mobs/quests/encounters need to be reworked to compensate for the relative lack of power on the players part? Also, are you going to continue to assign spec points at every level? I'd like to be able to raise some of my minor skills at the odd levels just to keep it from seeming like I just leveled and I got nothing for it.
5. Removal or nerfing of overpowered henchman.
Are you going to implement your own version of the pet interface, or will it stay the same as it has been? This was the change that you spoke of to let pet casters still use their pets and to have hirelings.
7. Removal or nerfing of overpowered gear to allow for re-balancing of end game mobs. Also think hard about modifying how combiners can be used or getting rid of them. I like socket drills and wrenches, but combiners are used to max stats and remove randomness. In addition, weapon speeds, cap issues, and other problems with gear have to be solved. An item gained at level 60 should not be useless at level 70. I need to somehow change the item power curve. In Diablo II a new drop might do a little more damage, but that damage might be mitigated by better bonuses on the lower level item.
This is a big one. Let's take it in it's individual parts.

Combiners-I think these should be left in the game. D2 had 'gems' that you could cube to make higher levels and I see this as a similar mechanic. However, D2 also had 'jewels' and that seems like what most of the properties on gear are currently. Can we change combiners so they can only be used on dropped trinkets? That way you could combine two "thorny vines" to create one of the next level up. And trinkets should also probably not have the restriction of minimum item levels to be inserted in. Another possibly beneficial change would be to allow multiple instances of the same bonus. For example, you could have two versions of "50% chance to steal 5 endurance" that would each proc separately.

Weapon Speed caps-The only thing I can think of on this (that hasn't been mentioned before) is to lower the maximum amount of "increased attack speed" available to just barely cap out swing speed based on the fastest weapon available on the server. As an aside, what is the swing speed cap?
8. Modify the mechanic of loot generation so more loot is created automatically and less or no loot has to be created by hand. I dislike custom loot for the end game mobs. In Diablo II the end game boss had a higher chance to drop rares, 'uniques', and sets, but rarely anything specifically unique to the boss. This is a tricky one to get right. First off, Diablo II had a crap ton of standard and magical drops, but the client was built to handle it. In DAoC the drop mechanic does not work well ... TOO MANY DAMN DROPS. I think I have to bite the bullet and make any drop fairly rare, and rare drops really rare at that. In this way fighting a boss to get an almost guaranteed rare drop is worth something!
A simple (but possibly unbalanced) solution would be to make standard mobs have a 10% chance to drop 'magical' items and 0% to drop 'rare' or 'unique'items. Rare mobs could have a 75% chance to drop 'magical' items and a 20% chance to drop 'rare' items with 0% chance to drop 'unique' items. Bosses could 100% to drop 1-3 'magical' items, 75% to drop one rare, and 25% to drop one unique. A potential problem I see with this is boss camping though. Also, low level mobs (say, under level 10) should have a 50% or so chance to drop completely normal items so that newbie players can gear up.
9. REMOVE CRAFTING...
:cry: Oh well, you can't win them all I suppose.

One additional question: What are your thoughts on implementing increased pulse rates for songs/chants/etc based on increased casting/melee speed?
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Re: Future of D2 - ideas for D3

Postby Tolakram » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:33 pm

I'm ok with increasing pulse speed, I just have to go in and do it all.

Thanks for your input. Nothing is 100% certain yet and time might be the enemy here. I'm out of time for a while so looking at D2 tweaks and such to improve the fun.
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Re: Future of D2 - ideas for D3

Postby xmidnight8x » Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:50 pm

I'd love to have old world Hib area :mrgreen:

I understand how tedious making loot can be but what about procs? I noticed some servers have crazy cool procs from bosses; bladeturn, summon theurgist pet, pbae, etc.
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Re: Future of D2 - ideas for D3

Postby xmidnight8x » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:51 pm

Also, what if you copied the Gaheris (PvE) server of Live Daoc? Or is it far more complicated than that? I enjoyed that server a lot and if you added some of your awesome tweaks then the content would be amazing.
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Re: Future of D2 - ideas for D3

Postby Hypro » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:09 pm

9. REMOVE CRAFTING. This is a royal pain in the rear for me. "Hey, I can't salvage XYZ or such and such is not implemented." Unfortunately I really don't care. Adding crafting recipes is not fun, extremely time consuming, and not enjoyable in the least. Diablo II did not have crafting, why do I support it? I can use those models for drops.
While I understand your point, I really think you should leave it in the way it is and just point out that you will not focus any energy on crafting at later dates. I don't care if salvaging does not work right. Reason I say this is crafting is a big part of my fun. I have 5 accounts and play many characters. I like to be able to outfit one of my fresh characters with a full crafted set of armor and weapons. Removing crafting will now force me to go farm low level mobs for hours to outfit them, not to mention that now, I will be forced to use 100's of plat to purchase socket drills, where with crafted gear the 8 slots on each piece was enough for most of the time.

Also if you remove housing i hope you can have a place for me to put my 8 guild storage chests ;)
Last edited by Tolakram on Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Future of D2 - ideas for D3

Postby Tolakram » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:13 pm

I don't think any of this will move forward. I tried to build some kind of plan but I just don't have the time.

Look for D2 to continue, probably a few tweaks here and there over the winter months, and probably some new area to explore.
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Re: Future of D2 - ideas for D3

Postby Hypro » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:26 am

I don't think any of this will move forward. I tried to build some kind of plan but I just don't have the time.

Look for D2 to continue, probably a few tweaks here and there over the winter months, and probably some new area to explore.
That's quite alright Tola. You know I have been here on and off since the start and as always its great fun and we all appreciate the work you put in.
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Re: Future of D2 - ideas for D3

Postby Ukobat » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:33 pm

you could add a cap to certain properties like +All skills, +All Resists, +All Resist Caps so that their individual counterparts are required to reach the given cap

(Matter Resist Cap=75%, only 45% can be gained from +60% All Resists, the remaining must be acquired from +30% Matter Resist for example)

this may also allow some room for tweaking the amount of incoming magic damage from mobs based on the All Resist cap without having to worry as much about the variance between being one-shotted and being able to tank hours' worth of nukes without healing
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Re: Future of D2 - ideas for D3

Postby Ukobat » Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:07 am

Also think hard about modifying how combiners can be used or getting rid of them. I like socket drills and wrenches, but combiners are used to max stats and remove randomness.

Originally when I read you had added "combiners" to the game, I thought they just took 2 trinkets/gems and put them together into one, and nothing more
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